I am so good.
How are you?
Yay.
We're so good.
You're here, and you're on the MarieTV live call-in show.
We've got Team Forleo here, and we are so excited to talk
with you today.
with you today.
So, tell us your question, and we are gonna do our best to
give you some advice and some
give you some advice and some
insight.
Fantastic.
Okay.
So, I am working full time as a marketer for a company as an
employee, nine to five.
employee, nine to five.
I'm also, at the same time, working to build my business as
a watercolor artist.
a watercolor artist.
My husband is also building a business as well, so right now
I am bringing home the
I am bringing home the
most of the money we use to live and pay the bills and
stuff.
stuff.
We have four kids, two living with us at home.
I also have MS, but I'm really healthy.
I recently met with a business counselor at my local small
business development center
business development center
who told me, he said, "Your business won't take off
until you're doing it full time."
until you're doing it full time."
I think he's right, but that would require me to leave my
full-time job, and convince
full-time job, and convince
my hubby that it'll all work out.
And maybe it could, but...
We have a little bit of savings, and we have a HELOC that we
can live off of, but that
can live off of, but that
makes me feel a little bit irresponsible, and a little bit
nervous.
nervous.
So, should I take the leap and see what happens, or should I
patiently wait the course and
patiently wait the course and
keep working on our business, until we get to the point
where it makes more financial
where it makes more financial
sense?
Pam, I adore you.
First of all, I love you so much for asking the question,
and providing so much context,
and providing so much context,
and for just having the bravery to go, "You know what?
I want to take a step back and really look at this."
So, I have so many thoughts on this, and I'll share some
ideas that hopefully will help
ideas that hopefully will help
you find your own wisdom.
Because here's what I believe.
I will tell you, I got a little nervous when you said you
spoke to the business counselor
spoke to the business counselor
who said, "Hey, your business basically is not gonna
take off until you do it full time."
take off until you do it full time."
Respectfully, I disagree.
I think that there are many, many different ways to have a
business, quote/unquote, "take
business, quote/unquote, "take
off."
In fact, there was a study done by the Academy of Management
Journal.
Journal.
They actually followed 5,000 entrepreneurs over 14 years,
and found that the ones that
and found that the ones that
kept their day job were actually 33% less likely to fail.
Now, of course that's just one study.
But I will tell you, the first thing that I want you to
really look inside for yourself
really look inside for yourself
is around self-awareness and risk adverseness.
Here's what I mean.
I see people generally fall into two camps.
One camp are folks that, when they burn the bridge behind
them, when they quit that job,
them, when they quit that job,
when they must make a business work, when they must generate
money, that is when they
money, that is when they
rise up.
So, having that financial pressure is actually a positive
thing for them.
thing for them.
Right?
Mmhmm.
So, they enjoy financial risk.
Some people are just built that way, and that's beautiful.
There's other of us...
And I will raise my hand.
I know you can't see me right now, you can just hear me, but
I'm raising my hand.
I'm raising my hand.
I'm in the other camp, where I am more financially risk
averse.
averse.
When I started my business, I had side jobs for seven full
years until I felt comfortable
years until I felt comfortable
enough, emotionally and financially, to leave those side
jobs and to run my business full
jobs and to run my business full
time.
Now, you shared with us not only do you have a husband, and
you have children, and there's
you have children, and there's
some things going on, and you're the main breadwinner right
now.
now.
So, I just wanted to share that context, that if you look
back in your history, and of course
back in your history, and of course
if you talk about this with your husband...
If you decide that maybe together, you guys are like,
"You know what?
"You know what?
We really do rise up when we have a lot of pressure.
That's when our best comes out."
Then, perhaps that advice from the business counselor may
actually be right and true for
actually be right and true for
you.
04:33
But if you take that look inside and it makes you feel more
scared, and as though your creativity...
scared, and as though your creativity...
I know at least this would be true for me, where my
creativity almost goes down.
creativity almost goes down.
Right?
Where there's more financial pressure, because I'm operating
in a place of scarcity.
in a place of scarcity.
Then, that's not gonna be the right choice for you.
I always like to tell people, it's not about overnight
success.
success.
04:54
It's about getting great over time, and having patience, and
taking care of yourself and
taking care of yourself and
your family.
You just can't underestimate that.
So, I don't believe I have the right answer, but I just
wanted to share some insights that
wanted to share some insights that
hopefully can help you find your own.
So, knowing your own risk adverseness, and ultimately, it's
about trusting yourself.
about trusting yourself.
And then, I want to make one reference before I want to hear
some of your feedback.
some of your feedback.
We have an amazing MarieTV episode.
If you Google search MarieTV, How to Make the Best
Decisions, I walk you through four
Decisions, I walk you through four
specific tests that will help you know, both cognitively,
intellectually, spiritually,
intellectually, spiritually,
and also from a visceral, kind of intuitive place, how to
find your best answer to move
find your best answer to move
ahead.
It includes working through some of the worst case scenarios
and some of the best case scenarios,
and some of the best case scenarios,
and also tapping into your body wisdom.
Which, as a painter and an artist, you absolutely have a lot
of.
of.
So, I'm gonna be quiet for a moment and see what your
feedback is, and to see if there's
feedback is, and to see if there's
anything else we can do to support you.
05:58
Well, this is very interesting advice, because I've heard
both.
both.
Like you said, I've heard both sides of the story.
Either the pressure makes you rise up, or the pressure just
makes you freak out, and
makes you freak out, and
you are not creative, and you kind of get stymied.
You kind of get stuck and stagnant.
Yes.
I read Big Magic twice, and in Big Magic, Elizabeth says
that you shouldn't put the
that you shouldn't put the
pressure on your creativity to support you.
And so, I really battled with that, and I thought,
"Okay.
"Okay.
If I put my pressure on my creativity, will my creativity
just be squelched?
just be squelched?
Will that suddenly be like, "Okay, creativity, provide
for me"?
for me"?
And she says you shouldn't ever say that to your creative
genius.
genius.
Whatever she calls it.
I can't remember.
06:50
Daemon, or whatever.
Yeah.
Yes.
And so, this has been a battle for me for many, many years.
Because my husband and I ran our own business, like probably
15 years ago, and we were in
15 years ago, and we were in
that place of, "Well, we'd better make some
money."
money."
We were chasing down the mailman, "Do you have a check
for us today?"
for us today?"
You know, that kind of thing.
So, I understand the pressure of owning your own business
and running your own business,
and running your own business,
and now that I'm older, and years wiser, I am a lot more
hesitant.
hesitant.
So, I mean, sure, the HELOC is there, and I have the money.
I could live off of it for a year, if I didn't make a penny.
But is that responsible?
I don't know.
I'm gonna watch your episode again, because I know I've
watched it.
watched it.
I've watched every single episode.
Oh, I love you, Pam.
I will say that when it comes to finances, I tend to be...
And again, this is my own personal view, and I just want to
make that very clear.
make that very clear.
So, I'm not trying to push it on you by any stretch of the
imagination, just share it,
imagination, just share it,
since you wanted our perspective...
I think that it's really possible for you to kind of look at
your finances, look at
your finances, look at
it with your husband, and work out like, "What is that
worst case scenario?"
worst case scenario?"
You know, "What if we did use all that savings, and we
found ourselves at zero?
found ourselves at zero?
Is that the position we want to be in?"
You had mentioned you have a health challenge, as well.
I just want to make sure that you're safe and okay.
And I don't believe it's one or the other, right?
I don't believe that if you have a full-time job, that
you're not living out your dreams
you're not living out your dreams
or your highest purpose.
Again, I know that when I was bartending, waiting tables,
cleaning people's toilets,
cleaning people's toilets,
I found a way to bring joy to those jobs because I knew that
they were funding my dream.
they were funding my dream.
So I wasn't in a position of suffering, if that makes sense.
I wasn't in a position of, like, "I'm not getting to do
what I really want to do."
what I really want to do."
I was like, "No, I am so grateful for this, because
this is allowing me to create abundance.
this is allowing me to create abundance.
It is allowing me to create a really strong financial future
for myself," knowing of the
for myself," knowing of the
place I want to get to, but not putting that pressure on
myself to get there right now.
myself to get there right now.
So, I love you for being willing to go back to that episode,
and to actually do the exercises
and to actually do the exercises
that I suggest, especially the ones that are in writing.
Pam, please do them in writing.
Mmhmm.
Put down those numbers.
Look deep into that worst case scenario and ask yourself,
"Okay, if the worst of the worst
"Okay, if the worst of the worst
happened, could I live with this?"
And then, looking at it on the flip side.
"What's the best thing that could happen if I took this
risk?
risk?
You know, if I stepped away from this job, if we used up all
the savings and it didn't
the savings and it didn't
work out, but perhaps the business really did take off.
What would that feel like?"
So, you have so much wisdom within you, and my intuitive
sense is that we just need to
sense is that we just need to
dig deeper.
We need to unearth it.
We need to put it on paper and really sit with it for a
little bit, so that you feel
little bit, so that you feel
confident in how you're moving ahead, despite what me or
that business counselor or anyone
that business counselor or anyone
else says.
That's really good advice.
Thank you very, very much for taking the time, and really
connecting authentically with me.
connecting authentically with me.
I love the fact that you are just tapped in and totally
present.
present.
Aw.
That's one of the things that I just, I totally admire about
you.
you.
That's probably why you have so many fans.
Pam...
I've told everybody to go and sign up for B School.
In fact, I have two friends that have already signed up for
it.
it.
Nice.
I want to do it again.
10:0810:09
Thank you so much for sharing that, Pam.
I think Zach wants to just maybe offer a few words of
advice, too.
advice, too.
He's here with me listening.
He got excited about you.
Well, I don't know if it's advice, or...
I mean, it sounds like there are a lot of pressures, like
having four kids, and managing
having four kids, and managing
10:23
the MS, and all that stuff.
10:24
How do you make room for your passion and your work, and
your responsibilities?
your responsibilities?
10:30
Yeah, it's a great question.
10:32
Actually, Zach's adding in another layer, and what I would
say, Pam...
say, Pam...
10:34
I'm sure you've been figuring this out.
10:37
But for me, I almost looked at this recent stage of my
career right now, because the
career right now, because the
10:42
business is beautiful and it's healthy and it's very robust,
and I wanted to fit in writing
and I wanted to fit in writing
10:46
a book, which is almost like this other passion that I
hadn't had room for.
hadn't had room for.
10:50
And so, one of the ways that I did it was I started waking
up at like 5:00 a.m., and
up at like 5:00 a.m., and
10:55
having a few hours of writing time really early, while the
rest of the world was still
rest of the world was still
11:00
sleeping, while Kuma, my puppy, was not up, wanting to be
walked out, when Josh wasn't
walked out, when Josh wasn't
11:06
up, like, "Where's my coffee?
11:07
What are we doing?
11:08
What's going on?"
11:09
And so, I think it really is about carving out these sacred
moments of time, whether
moments of time, whether
11:15
it's in the morning or the afternoon or the evening.
11:18
Even if it's just an hour or 20 minutes where we do that
creative, deep work.
creative, deep work.
11:23
So for you, Pam, wherever you can kind of carve it out and
fit it in.
fit it in.
11:29
But as I'm listening to you, I think that you really do have
such strong intuitive hits,
such strong intuitive hits,
11:35
and my vision for you in this next chapter is for you to
keep getting in touch with that,
keep getting in touch with that,
11:40
and get stronger in your ability to listen to your own
voice.
voice.
11:44
Because you have so much wisdom in you.
11:46
I can feel it, and I get excited thinking about...
11:49
It's the truth.
11:50
I get excited about you continuing to hear it more clearly,
and act on it.
and act on it.
11:54
Well, thank you.
11:56
And I do, I wake up at 5:00 every morning to work on...
12:00
I meditate and I study and I pray, and then I paint.
12:05
So yeah, I fit it in.
12:07
But I had a mentor a long time ago, one of my art teachers,
who told me...
who told me...
12:08
And I said, "I have kids.
12:09
I don't know how I'm gonna fit it all in."
12:13
And she said, "You fit it in into the cracks of your
life."
life."
12:16
Yes.
12:17
Mmhmm.
12:18
"Because it is your passion, you fit it in wherever you
possibly can."
possibly can."
12:21
Just like you said, Marie.
12:23
Like, if I am sticking a bunch of chicken in the oven, I'll
set the timer on the oven,
set the timer on the oven,
12:25
and I will be like, "Okay, I got an hour.
12:29
I'm going back up to my art studio, and I'm gonna paint for
the next 45 minutes."
the next 45 minutes."
12:33
And if my kids have homework, I'm like, "Come into the
studio.
studio.
12:37
You're working on your homework, and I'm gonna paint at the
same time.
same time.
12:40
We've both got homework."
12:41
That's great.
12:42
That's how I do it.
12:43
I just fit it in, wherever I possibly can.
12:44
But it's usually waking up super early, and that is my time.
12:47
Yeah.
12:48
.That’s it.
12:49
I can focus.
12:50
I love it.
12:51
Awesome.
12:52
Pam, thank you so much...
12:53
Yeah, thanks. ...for allowing us to contribute to your dream
12:55
today.
12:56
Thanks for a great question.
12:57
And I know, I can even hear it in the audience, people are
like, "Thank you, Pam."
like, "Thank you, Pam."
13:00
You just gave so many people so much permission and so many
ideas.
ideas.
13:04
When you do have a lot of responsibility in your life, how
to fit that sacred, creative
to fit that sacred, creative
13:08
work into those crevices.
13:09
We love you.
13:10
Please keep us posted.
13:12
Thank you so much, Marie.
13:14
Thank you both so much.
13:15
Thank you.
13:16
I love you guys, and I'll continue to be a fan and spread
the word.
the word.
13:19
Love you, too.
13:20
Thanks, Pam.
13:21
Bye. Ciao, ciao.
13:22
Okay.
13:23
Have a great day.
13:24
You too.
13:25
Bye.
13:27
Hi.
13:29
Hi.
13:31
It's Marie from MarieTV.
13:32
How are you?
13:33
Oh my God.
13:34
Hi, Marie.
13:35
It's Mayssa.
13:36
Hi, Mayssa.
13:37
I'm so happy to talk to you.
13:38
Hi, Mayssa.
13:39
Oh my God.
13:40
You are such an inspiration for me, so I'm so honored to
talk to you today.
talk to you today.
13:45
Oh.
13:46
Well, we are very grateful to talk with you, my love.
13:48
Tell us your question, and we will do our very best to
provide some insight and some
provide some insight and some
13:52
guidance, to help you move ahead.
13:54
Amazing.
13:55
So, just to put you in the context, I'm a beauty influencer
and a lifestyle influencer
and a lifestyle influencer
13:58
on social media, like for six years now.
14:00
I used to have a blog and a YouTube channel, and I was
posting videos like makeup tutorials,
posting videos like makeup tutorials,
14:07
beauty product reviews, et cetera.
14:10
But for the past three years, I've been focusing more on
Instagram.
Instagram.
14:14
So, I've been building my audience through the years, and
now I have thousands of people
now I have thousands of people
14:19
following me on Instagram.
14:20
Great.
14:21
But actually, being an influencer, it was like a side
hustle.
hustle.
14:22
I do collaborations with brands, et cetera.
14:23
But it was more like a side hustle, than a nine to five job.
14:29
So, a few months ago, I decided to follow my passion.
14:35
I quit my nine to five job, and I started my own influencer
marketing and social media
marketing and social media
14:42
agency.
14:43
Wow.
14:44
And I love it.
14:45
So, since my audience is still expecting me to post content
related to beauty and fashion,
related to beauty and fashion,
14:51
my question is, how to rebrand the business to a new
activity or field, when you already
activity or field, when you already
14:58
have an audience who's interested in what you used to do,
and what you're known for
and what you're known for
15:03
years now?
15:04
Yes.
15:05
Because now, I want to share more content about influencer
marketing and content creation
marketing and content creation
15:10
and social media growth.
15:11
I also take clients for one on one bookings, so I want to
start promoting that on my platform.
start promoting that on my platform.
15:17
Yes.
15:18
I mean, is it okay to do an overnight change, or is it
better maybe to announce it before
better maybe to announce it before
15:24
to the audience.
15:25
So, like, "We're gonna change the niche"?
15:27
Yeah.
15:28
I'm gonna give you a bunch of possibilities, and I also want
to set some context from my
to set some context from my
15:32
own career, too.
15:33
First of all, my love, you feel, to me...
15:36
I want to say congratulations on everything that you've done
and built so far.
and built so far.
15:39
It's absolutely incredible.
15:40
Thank you so much.
15:41
We're toasting you, and Zach is giving you some confetti
throws, so that's awesome.
throws, so that's awesome.
15:47
But here's the deal: You're multi-passionate.
15:49
I'm multi-passionate.
15:50
Many of us are.
15:51
And even if you don't feel that you're multi-passionate,
most of us are not gonna stay in the same
most of us are not gonna stay in the same
15:55
exact part of our career for our entire lives, right?
15:58
For 40 or 50 or 60 years.
16:00
So, all of us have evolutions.
16:02
I just want to say that for everyone listening, because it
can be scary.
can be scary.
16:06
You know, when I first started, I was so passionate about
life coaching, but then I was also teaching
life coaching, but then I was also teaching
16:11
hip hop and dance.
16:12
I was like, "Oh, goodness.
16:14
Can I tell my coaching people about the fact that I teach
hip hop?
hip hop?
16:17
Should I invite them to dance workshops?"
16:19
And then vice versa, right?
16:20
"Should I talk to my dance people about the fact that I
do all this coaching stuff?"
do all this coaching stuff?"
16:23
Then when business came into the mix, there was just all
those same kind of thoughts,
those same kind of thoughts,
16:27
so I understand this very well.
16:29
Now, you asked a question about whether you should do like
an overnight change, or you
an overnight change, or you
16:32
should do it gradually.
16:33
I don't believe that there's one right way to approach this,
but I want to offer you
but I want to offer you
16:38
some possibilities, so that you can feel into what you think
is the best and most appropriate
is the best and most appropriate
16:42
path ahead for you.
16:44
So, if I were you, I would consider starting to drip in
these new, exciting insights about
these new, exciting insights about
16:54
your path.
16:55
Telling people about your story, about the fact that you've
been a beauty influencer
been a beauty influencer
16:59
for years, and you discovered this incredible passion for
influencer marketing.
influencer marketing.
17:05
You've now started this agency.
17:06
This is a new chapter in your career.
17:08
And if you start dripping this in, it lets people know, in a
story-based way, which is
story-based way, which is
17:14
how we all learn best, what's about to come.
17:18
So, my gut –– again, and you don't have to listen to me, I
just want to offer you
just want to offer you
17:21
a possibility –– is that you start dripping this new content
in, understanding that some
in, understanding that some
17:28
of your existing followers are gonna be like, "This is
amazing.
amazing.
17:31
I'm actually interested in this, too.
17:34
I love beauty.
17:35
I love to learn about marketing.
17:36
I love to learn about influencers."
17:38
And then, perhaps there's some people who will be like,
"You know what?
"You know what?
17:41
Maybe this isn't for me anymore."
17:43
Now of course, you may have considered and thought of,
"Oh, should I start a whole new
"Oh, should I start a whole new
17:48
Instagram account, and start like a whole new page, and try
and keep up two things?"
and keep up two things?"
17:52
You could do that if you wanted to, but I find that
especially when you're starting
especially when you're starting
17:57
a new business, which it sounds like you have, your time is
very limited, and you already
very limited, and you already
18:01
need to wear a lot of hats.
18:02
So getting clear for yourself, first, how many things that
you want to manage is really
you want to manage is really
18:08
important.
18:09
Again, you're totally capable.
18:10
If you wanted to run two channels, you could do that.
18:13
I like to keep things simple.
18:15
One of my life mantras is, "Simplify to amplify."
18:17
So if everyone's in the same mix...
18:19
Which, by the way, I did with my dance and with coaching.
18:22
And I would say probably close to between 60 and 80% of the
people were thrilled with
people were thrilled with
18:26
both.
18:27
Like, folks who like to move their bodies also want to
improve their lives.
improve their lives.
18:31
So for you, a lot of your folks that are interested in
beauty, again, many of them may want to
beauty, again, many of them may want to
18:36
become beauty influencers themselves, or may actually want
to become clients of yours,
to become clients of yours,
18:41
because they want to follow in your footsteps.
18:42
So, that's one way that you could consider doing it.
18:47
There's something in my body that just feels like a harsh
change.
change.
18:51
Like, "Oh my gosh.
18:52
I'm gonna flip everything overnight."
18:53
It also doesn't feel like –– and please correct me if I'm
wrong –– that that's
wrong –– that that's
18:56
necessarily true for you.
18:58
You know what I mean?
18:59
Like, you're just like, "I want this, hard stop, and
that's just it, and I just want
that's just it, and I just want
19:03
to take it off."
19:04
Am I right on that?
19:05
No, it's not exactly what I want.
19:07
I want to shift step by step, I mean.
19:10
Yes.
19:11
Yes, yes, yes.
19:12
You can do that beautifully.
19:13
So, I think it's really about dripping in the content, being
okay with the fact that
okay with the fact that
19:18
you may lose some followers, and not making yourself wrong,
or making them wrong, and
or making them wrong, and
19:23
knowing that you're just widening up the possibilities for
who you're gonna attract in this next
who you're gonna attract in this next
19:27
exciting chapter of your life.
19:29
Oh my God.
19:30
I'm so, so happy.
19:31
Thank you so much, everyone.
19:33
I really appreciate all of their comments you're putting out
there for us.
there for us.
19:37
Thank you so much, Marie.
19:38
You're welcome, love.
19:39
Keep us posted.
19:40
Okay.
19:41
Bye.
19:42
Bye.
19:43
Bye.
19:44
I love the tell your story part.
19:45
Yeah.
19:46
Tell me more.
19:47
I so identify.
19:48
I identify with that, because I've got all these interests
as well.
as well.
19:49
Yeah.
19:50
And I've struggled with this in the past.
19:51
Like, when I was a production designer, I was also still
PA-ing to pay the bills.
PA-ing to pay the bills.
19:55
Yeah.
19:56
Of course.
19:57
And so, I was afraid that somebody would find out in this
other world.
other world.
19:59
And so, how do you...
20:00
If I had just shared my story, then people would have
connected to that passion and that
connected to that passion and that
20:05
drive.
20:06
And also related to the fact that most of us...
20:08
I think so many creatives, we do so many different things,
and we have so many different sources
and we have so many different sources
20:13
of revenue.
20:14
And I think that there can be sometimes a lot of shame, when
people feel like, "Oh,
people feel like, "Oh,
20:17
if I'm doing this thing that my mind considers less than,
and then I have this other, more
and then I have this other, more
20:22
art-ly, creative function, that I can't talk about
both."
both."
20:24
Right.
20:25
But I think the more that we do, the more we realize that,
"Gosh.
"Gosh.
20:28
Most of us have to do a bunch of different things, to keep
the roof over our head."
the roof over our head."
20:31
Okay, so in that note, how do you simplify to amplify, in
that realm?
that realm?
20:35
Well, I think simplify to amplify means not having multiple
identities that you're trying
identities that you're trying
20:41
to keep separate.
20:42
Okay.
20:43
When you're just willing to talk about everything, and
you're like, "Oh, this is all me."
you're like, "Oh, this is all me."
20:46
Great.
20:47
You know, "This is what I'm doing," then you don't
have to feel like you maintain five
have to feel like you maintain five
20:49
different websites, and five different Instagram accounts,
and you're trying to kind of compartmentalize,
and you're trying to kind of compartmentalize,
20:54
and not share it all.
20:55
Yeah.
20:56
That's for me, at least.
20:58
Zach, thank you so much for being here with me today.
20:59
Thanks for having me.
21:01
Thank you for watching this episode of MarieTV.
21:03
Now, as always, the best conversations happen after the
episode, over at MarieForleo.com.
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21:08
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21:11
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21:35
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21:39
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22:07
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22:12
Terrible.
22:13
I'm terrible.
22:14
I'm terrible.
22:15
I'm tiramisu.
22:17
I actually have a lot of questions that are totally
off-topic.
off-topic.
22:20
Okay, great.
22:21
Great.
22:22
So, we can do it another time.
22:23
You're like...
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